Ou il est question de Magic et de contrefaçons!

Spoiler:

NiRVeS a écrit:
Et pour le Sacred Foundry et le Inkmoth Nexus...ben, je ne vois aucun différence non plus.

Chas Andres sur SCG a écrit:I have noticed that this is a fairly common reaction to the counterfeiting story, but it is a misguided opinion. If you are a true fan of Magic: The Gathering, you should be unequivocally against counterfeit cards.

Let's imagine for a moment that the market becomes flooded with really good counterfeits. They are so good that it is impossible to distinguish them from authentic Magic cards. Some of the bigger sites like this one will probably attempt to only sell "authenticated" singles using whatever methods they can to try and sort out the fakes, but the floodgates will open quickly once people realize what's going on.

The biggest problems will start once judges become unable tell real cards from fake ones in a timely fashion. Most ethical people would try to only play with actual cards, of course, but if it becomes truly impossible to tell them apart in a tournament setting, the lines will start to blur. People will tell themselves that playing with these cards is no different than movie, music, or software piracy. The "Magic player" demographic and the "software pirate" demographic has a lot of overlap, so this won't be a huge leap for most players.

Even the holdouts and honest players will be forced to conform. If there's no way of knowing for sure whether a card you buy was actually printed by Wizards or not, it becomes easy for all of us to cross that line and impossible not to.

At that point card prices will be at record lows. If I can have a million Tarmogoyfs printed for me in a single day for $0.015 each—that's a penny and a half per card, close to what that site charges for fakes right now—why should I ever pay more than that for any card? Cards will cease being worth more than the value of the paper that they're printed on. After all, what are you paying for when you buy an Underground Sea? Cardboard and faith. Only one of those things will be left standing.

At first this seems like a populist fantasy. Finally dual lands are free from the tyranny of the 1%! We can all play Modern and Legacy to our heart's content free from the burden of limited print runs, the reserved list, or any WotC control at all! Bring on the revolution!

Here's the problem. A majority of the infrastructure of the Magic community exists because of the value that cards have on the secondary market. If the collectable aspect of the game disappears, the community will collapse.

Do you like playing Magic at your local store? Chances are that they make a large portion of their revenue from selling singles. If singles become worthless, that part of their business would be gone overnight. Many stores would have to close down on the back of this problem alone. If you think stores make money selling booster boxes, you've never checked the margins. Some stores would be able to survive selling snacks and board games, but many would not.

The problem goes further than that though. People buy boxes, packs, event decks, boxed sets, and everything else in part because they know it will retain some of its value on the secondary market. Even if you're never planning to sell your collection, the fact that you can sell it matters a lot. People justify their Magic purchases based on this. Part of the excitement of opening a pack—even in a draft—is the chance of opening a high-value card.

If cards become worthless, many fewer packs will be opened. After all, why preorder a box of the latest set if you can buy a dozen copies of the entire set from China for a couple of dollars?

This would be almost as catastrophic for WotC as it would be for brick and mortar stores. Magic sets are great right now because Wizards can afford to employ the best and brightest in the industry. If revenues tanked overnight, the current standard of R&D excellence would not be able to continue.

Organized play would also take a huge hit. FNM would survive—but only at stores that make enough of their money on other products to stay open without selling singles. Larger events, like PTQs, Grand Prix, and Pro Tours, would likely have their prize money cut considerably. Organizers would no longer gain much revenue from selling table space to vendors, and the WotC budget for these events would probably result in fewer tournaments for lower prizes. Some pros would stick around and there would still be some grinders, but most of them are barely scraping by as it is and could not deal with many more cuts. We'd certainly lose a large number of the people who make the game special today.

I would also guess that a large saturation of counterfeit cards would cripple the amateur circuit and most professional Magic writing. (I am speaking on my own and not for SCG here. I have no insider knowledge on this topic at all.) Tournament series like the StarCityGames.com Open Series depend on card sale revenue. That money is also what pays for writers like me and everyone else on this site. If these hubs find their main source of income gone, it will be hard to continue supporting a large travelling circus of tournaments. At the very least entry fees would rise considerably and prizes would fall considerably. Fewer people would play. Many would move on to other better-supported games.

So yeah, if counterfeit cards flooded the market, you could play Legacy for free with fake cards—on your kitchen table with some friends. You can already do that with a stack of basic lands and a marker.

Good luck finding a tournament to play in though.

MoTo a écrit:En même temps, le jour où on ne saura plus du tout voir la différence... On s'en foutra, non ? Ce seront de "vraies" cartes... Et bim, comment résoudre le problème de la reserved list et permettre à tous de jouer Legacy. C'est démocratique comme système. (D'ailleurs, soit dit en passant, ces systèmes de copyrights et droits d'auteur -qui sont deux choses différentes notamment de par leur origine- sont des concepts assez récents, qui pour l'un se base sur une volonté de laisser une certaine paternité à l'auteur et pour l'autre n'est qu'une règle purement mercantile. Celui-là, dérivé des concepts de propriété (par le biais de la propriété intellectuelle), est un frein à l'innovation (sauf quand il est transgressé, auquel cas les entreprises dont les produits sont copiés sont encouragées à développer des nouveaux produits, et ainsi de suite).).

NiRVeS a écrit:D'un côté, oui.

En revanche, c'est une pensée dangereuse.

Chas Andres sur SCG a écrit:I have noticed that this is a fairly common reaction to the counterfeiting story, but it is a misguided opinion. If you are a true fan of Magic: The Gathering, you should be unequivocally against counterfeit cards.

Let's imagine for a moment that the market becomes flooded with really good counterfeits. They are so good that it is impossible to distinguish them from authentic Magic cards. Some of the bigger sites like this one will probably attempt to only sell "authenticated" singles using whatever methods they can to try and sort out the fakes, but the floodgates will open quickly once people realize what's going on.

The biggest problems will start once judges become unable tell real cards from fake ones in a timely fashion. Most ethical people would try to only play with actual cards, of course, but if it becomes truly impossible to tell them apart in a tournament setting, the lines will start to blur. People will tell themselves that playing with these cards is no different than movie, music, or software piracy. The "Magic player" demographic and the "software pirate" demographic has a lot of overlap, so this won't be a huge leap for most players.

Even the holdouts and honest players will be forced to conform. If there's no way of knowing for sure whether a card you buy was actually printed by Wizards or not, it becomes easy for all of us to cross that line and impossible not to.

At that point card prices will be at record lows. If I can have a million Tarmogoyfs printed for me in a single day for $0.015 each—that's a penny and a half per card, close to what that site charges for fakes right now—why should I ever pay more than that for any card? Cards will cease being worth more than the value of the paper that they're printed on. After all, what are you paying for when you buy an Underground Sea? Cardboard and faith. Only one of those things will be left standing.

At first this seems like a populist fantasy. Finally dual lands are free from the tyranny of the 1%! We can all play Modern and Legacy to our heart's content free from the burden of limited print runs, the reserved list, or any WotC control at all! Bring on the revolution!

Here's the problem. A majority of the infrastructure of the Magic community exists because of the value that cards have on the secondary market. If the collectable aspect of the game disappears, the community will collapse.

Do you like playing Magic at your local store? Chances are that they make a large portion of their revenue from selling singles. If singles become worthless, that part of their business would be gone overnight. Many stores would have to close down on the back of this problem alone. If you think stores make money selling booster boxes, you've never checked the margins. Some stores would be able to survive selling snacks and board games, but many would not.

The problem goes further than that though. People buy boxes, packs, event decks, boxed sets, and everything else in part because they know it will retain some of its value on the secondary market. Even if you're never planning to sell your collection, the fact that you can sell it matters a lot. People justify their Magic purchases based on this. Part of the excitement of opening a pack—even in a draft—is the chance of opening a high-value card.

If cards become worthless, many fewer packs will be opened. After all, why preorder a box of the latest set if you can buy a dozen copies of the entire set from China for a couple of dollars?

This would be almost as catastrophic for WotC as it would be for brick and mortar stores. Magic sets are great right now because Wizards can afford to employ the best and brightest in the industry. If revenues tanked overnight, the current standard of R&D excellence would not be able to continue.

Organized play would also take a huge hit. FNM would survive—but only at stores that make enough of their money on other products to stay open without selling singles. Larger events, like PTQs, Grand Prix, and Pro Tours, would likely have their prize money cut considerably. Organizers would no longer gain much revenue from selling table space to vendors, and the WotC budget for these events would probably result in fewer tournaments for lower prizes. Some pros would stick around and there would still be some grinders, but most of them are barely scraping by as it is and could not deal with many more cuts. We'd certainly lose a large number of the people who make the game special today.

I would also guess that a large saturation of counterfeit cards would cripple the amateur circuit and most professional Magic writing. (I am speaking on my own and not for SCG here. I have no insider knowledge on this topic at all.) Tournament series like the StarCityGames.com Open Series depend on card sale revenue. That money is also what pays for writers like me and everyone else on this site. If these hubs find their main source of income gone, it will be hard to continue supporting a large travelling circus of tournaments. At the very least entry fees would rise considerably and prizes would fall considerably. Fewer people would play. Many would move on to other better-supported games.

So yeah, if counterfeit cards flooded the market, you could play Legacy for free with fake cards—on your kitchen table with some friends. You can already do that with a stack of basic lands and a marker.

Good luck finding a tournament to play in though.

Swap a écrit:Super mais on achète où ?  Need un cube bon marché.

Cromat a écrit:C'est vrai laissons la contrefaçon faire et quand wotc sera sur la paille parce que la contrefaçon c'est moins cher et bien on sera tous bien emmerder de ne pas avoir nos 4 extensions par an

Nexus a écrit:Moi je suis contre car quand je vais a un tournois et qu'un mec me joue une 'proxy' je trouve ça un peu injuste car j'ai payer 100€ pour ma underground sea et lui la fait dans ça cave ...

après je comprends qu'il y'en a qui sont pour, mais bon après c'est un avis, par exemple acheter une veste d'une marque a 25€ au lieu de 250€ car c'est une contrefaçon ça me dérangerais pas perso, mais a magic je trouve ça un manque de respect envers ton opponent qui lui a investi de la vrai thune quoi! en tournois je dirais limit c'est du vol si il gagne le tournois!