[Résolu] Talrand & Flashback, Rebound, Copy, Storm et autres...

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Message  ArchAlex le Lun 6 Aoû - 14:01

Ce petit message pour tenter d'entrevoir toutes les possibilités de Talrand. Merci de bien vouloir combler mes lacunes Very Happy

Talrand, Sky Summoner
Legendary Creature - Merfolk Wizard
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, put a 2/2 blue Drake creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
2/2


702.32. Flashback
702.32a Flashback appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities: one that functions while the card is in a player's graveyard and the other that functions while the card is on the stack. "Flashback [cost]" means "You may cast this card from your graveyard by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost" and "If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack." Casting a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e-g.

Donc ça fonctionne bien avec le Flashback

702.38. Storm
702.38a Storm is a triggered ability that functions while the spell is on the stack. “Storm” means “When you play this spell, put a copy of it onto the stack for each other spell that was played before it this turn. If the spell has any targets, you may choose new targets for any number of the copies.”
702.38b If a spell has multiple instances of storm, each triggers separately.

Donc ça ne fonctionne pas avec Storm

706. Copying Objects

706.1. Some objects become or turn another object into a "copy" of a spell, permanent, or card. Some effects put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of another object. (Certain older cards were printed with the phrase "search for a copy." This section doesn't cover those cards, which have received new text in the Oracle card reference.)

706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by "as . . . enters the battlefield" and "as . . . is turned face up" abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads "{X}: Chimeric Staff becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn." Clone is a creature that reads, "You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield." After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact creature. (The copy has the Staff's ability, however, and will become a creature if that ability is activated.)
Example: Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of a face-down Grinning Demon (a creature with morph {2}{B}{B}). The Clone is a colorless 2/2 creature with no name, no types, no abilities, and no mana cost. It will still be face up. Its controller can't pay {2}{B}{B} to turn it face up.

706.2a A copy acquires the color of the object it's copying because that value is derived from its mana cost. A copy acquires the abilities of the object it's copying because those values are derived from its rules text. A copy doesn't wind up with two values of each ability (that is, it doesn't copy the object's abilities and its rules text, then have that rules text define a new set of abilities).

706.3. The copy's copiable values become the copied information, as modified by the copy's status (see rule 110.6). Objects that copy the object will use the new copiable values.
Example: Vesuvan Doppelganger reads, "You may have Vesuvan Doppelganger enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield except it doesn't copy that creature's color and it gains 'At the beginning of your upkeep, you may have this creature become a copy of target creature except it doesn't copy that creature's color. If you do, this creature gains this ability.'" A Vesuvan Doppelganger enters the battlefield as a copy of Runeclaw Bear (a 2/2 green Bear creature with no abilities). Then a Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of the Doppelganger. The Clone is a 2/2 blue Bear named Runeclaw Bear that has the Doppelganger's upkeep-triggered ability.
Example: Tomoya the Revealer (a flipped flip card) becomes a copy of Nezumi Shortfang (an unflipped flip card). Tomoya's characteristics become the characteristics of Stabwhisker the Odious, which is the flipped version of Nezumi Shortfang.
Example: A face-down Grinning Demon (a creature with morph) becomes a copy of a face-up Branchsnap Lorian (a 4/1 green creature with trample and morph {G}). The Demon's characteristics become the characteristics of Branchsnap Lorian. However, since the creature is face down, it remains a 2/2 colorless creature with no name, types, or abilities, and no mana cost. It can be turned face up for {G}. If it's turned face up, it will have the characteristics of Branchsnap Lorian.
Example: A face-down Grinning Demon (a creature with morph) becomes a copy of Wandering Ones (a 1/1 blue Spirit creature that doesn't have morph). It will be a face-down Wandering Ones. It remains a 2/2 colorless creature with no name, types, or abilities, and no mana cost. Its controller can't turn it face up as a special action. If an effect turns it face up, it will have the characteristics of Wandering Ones.

706.4. Some effects cause a permanent that's copying a permanent to copy a different object while remaining on the battlefield. The change doesn't trigger enters-the-battlefield or leaves-the-battlefield abilities. This also doesn't change any noncopy effects presently affecting the permanent.
Example: Unstable Shapeshifter reads, "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, Unstable Shapeshifter becomes a copy of that creature and gains this ability." It's affected by Giant Growth, which reads "Target creature gets +3/+3 until end of turn." If a creature enters the battlefield later this turn, Unstable Shapeshifter will become a copy of that creature, but it will still get +3/+3 from the Giant Growth.

706.5. An object that enters the battlefield "as a copy" or "that's a copy" of another object becomes a copy as it enters the battlefield. It doesn't enter the battlefield, and then become a copy of that permanent. If the text that's being copied includes any abilities that replace the enters-the-battlefield event (such as "enters the battlefield with" or "as [this] enters the battlefield" abilities), those abilities will take effect. Also, any enters-the-battlefield triggered abilities of the copy will have a chance to trigger.
Example: Skyshroud Behemoth reads, "Fading 2 (This creature enters the battlefield with two fade counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from it. If you can't, sacrifice it.)" and "Skyshroud Behemoth enters the battlefield tapped." A Clone that enters the battlefield as a copy of a Skyshroud Behemoth will also enter the battlefield tapped with two fade counters on it.
Example: Striped Bears reads, "When Striped Bears enters the battlefield, draw a card." A Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of Striped Bears. The Clone has the Bears' enters-the-battlefield triggered ability, so the Clone's controller draws a card.

706.6. When copying a permanent, any choices that have been made for that permanent aren't copied. Instead, if an object enters the battlefield as a copy of another permanent, the object's controller will get to make any "as [this] enters the battlefield" choices for it.
Example: A Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of Chameleon Spirit. Chameleon Spirit reads, in part, "As Chameleon Spirit enters the battlefield, choose a color." The Clone won't copy the color choice of the Spirit; rather, the controller of the Clone will get to make a new choice.

706.7. If a pair of linked abilities are copied, those abilities will be similarly linked to one another on the object that copied them. One ability refers only to actions that were taken or objects that were affected by the other. They can't be linked to any other ability, regardless of what other abilities the copy may currently have or may have had in the past. See rule 606, "Linked Abilities."

706.7a If an ability causes a player to "choose a [value]" or "name a card," and a second, linked ability refers to that choice, the second ability is the only ability that can refer to that choice. An object doesn't "remember" that choice and use it for other abilities it may copy later. If an object copies an ability that refers to a choice, but either (a) doesn't copy that ability's linked ability or (b) does copy the linked ability but no choice is made for it, then the choice is considered to be "undefined." If an ability refers to an undefined choice, that part of the ability won't do anything.
Example: Voice of All enters the battlefield and Unstable Shapeshifter copies it. Voice of All reads, in part, "As Voice of All enters the battlefield, choose a color." and "Voice of All has protection from the chosen color." Unstable Shapeshifter never had a chance for a color to be chosen for it, because it didn't enter the battlefield as a Voice of All card, so the protection ability doesn't protect it from anything at all.
Example: A Vesuvan Doppelganger enters the battlefield as a copy of Chameleon Spirit, and the Doppelganger's controller chooses blue. Later, the Doppelganger copies Quirion Elves. The Elves has the ability, "{T}: Add one mana of the chosen color to your mana pool." Even though a color was chosen for the Doppelganger, it wasn't chosen for the ability linked to the mana ability copied from the Elves. If that mana ability of the Doppelganger is activated, it will not produce mana.

706.8. Some copy effects give an ability to the copy as part of the copying process. This ability becomes part of the copiable values for the copy, along with any other abilities that were copied. Also, some copy effects specifically state that they don't copy certain characteristics; they retain their original values instead.
Example: Quirion Elves enters the battlefield and an Unstable Shapeshifter copies it. The copiable values of the Shapeshifter now match those of the Elves, except that the Shapeshifter also has the ability "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, Unstable Shapeshifter becomes a copy of that creature and gains this ability." Then a Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of the Unstable Shapeshifter. The Clone copies the new copiable values of the Shapeshifter, including the ability that the Shapeshifter gave itself when it copied the Elves.

706.9. To copy a spell or activated ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn't cast and a copy of an activated ability isn't activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, "Casting Spells.") Choices that are normally made on resolution are not copied. If an effect of the copy refers to objects used to pay its costs, it uses the objects used to pay the costs of the original spell or ability. A copy of a spell is owned by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell or ability is controlled by the player under whose control it was put on the stack. A copy of a spell is itself a spell, even though it has no spell card associated with it. A copy of an ability is itself an ability.
Example: A player casts Fork, targeting an Emerald Charm. Fork reads, "Copy target instant or sorcery spell, except that the copy is red. You may choose new targets for the copy." Emerald Charm is a green instant that reads, "Choose one -- Untap target permanent; or destroy target non-Aura enchantment; or target creature loses flying until end of turn." When the Fork resolves, it puts a copy of the Emerald Charm on the stack except the copy is red, not green. The copy has the same mode that was chosen for the original Emerald Charm. It does not necessarily have the same target, but only because Fork allows choosing of new targets.
Example: Fling is an instant that reads, "As an additional cost to cast Fling, sacrifice a creature" and "Fling deals damage equal to the sacrificed creature's power to target creature or player." When determining how much damage a copy of Fling deals, it checks the power of the creature sacrificed to pay for the original Fling.

706.9a If a copy of a spell is in a zone other than the stack, it ceases to exist. If a copy of a card is in any zone other than the stack or the battlefield, it ceases to exist. These are state-based actions. See rule 704.

706.9b A copy of an ability has the same source as the original ability. If the ability refers to its source by name, the copy refers to that same object and not to any other object with the same name. The copy is considered to be the same ability by effects that count how many times that ability has resolved during the turn.

706.9c Some effects copy a spell or ability and state that its controller may choose new targets for the copy. The player may leave any number of the targets unchanged, even if those targets would be illegal. If the player chooses to change some or all of the targets, the new targets must be legal. Once the player has decided what the copy's targets will be, the copy is put onto the stack with those targets.

706.10. If an effect refers to a permanent by name, the effect still tracks that permanent even if it changes names or becomes a copy of something else.
Example: An Unstable Shapeshifter copies a Crazed Armodon. Crazed Armodon reads, "{G}: Crazed Armodon gets +3/+0 and gains trample until end of turn. Destroy Crazed Armodon at the beginning of the next end step. Activate this ability only once each turn." If this ability of the Shapeshifter is activated, the Shapeshifter will be destroyed at the beginning of the next end step, even if it's no longer a copy of Crazed Armodon at that time.

706.11. An effect that instructs a player to "cast a copy" of an object follows the rules for casting spells, except that the copy is cast while another spell or ability is resolving. Casting a copy of an object follows steps 601.2a-g of rule 601, "Casting Spells," then the copy becomes cast. The cast copy is a spell on the stack, and just like any other spell it can resolve or be countered.

Donc ... heu ... ça ne fonctionne pas pour les copies.

702.85. Rebound
702.85a Rebound appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents a static ability that functions while the spell is on the stack and may create a delayed triggered ability. "Rebound" means "If this spell was cast from your hand, instead of putting it into your graveyard as it resolves, exile it and, at the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost."
702.85b Casting a card without paying its mana cost as the result of a rebound ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e-g.
702.85c Multiple instances of rebound on the same spell are redundant.

Donc ça fonctionne bien avec le rebond.


Merci de corriger et:ou de compléter. Very Happy

ArchAlex

Nombre de messages : 131
Date d'inscription : 07/03/2012

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Message  NiRVeS le Lun 6 Aoû - 14:13

Certaines cartes te permettent de créer des copies des sorts, et de les lancer après:

Isochron Scepter - 2
Artifact
Imprint — When Isochron Scepter enters the battlefield, you may exile an instant card with converted mana cost 2 or less from your hand.
2, T : You may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

Eye of the Storm - 5UU
Enchantment
Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery card, exile it. Then that player copies each instant or sorcery card exiled with Eye of the Storm. For each copy, the player may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.

Celles là, ils interagent bien avec Talrand aussi.

Mais comme tu citent, des effet qui font une copie d'une sort, et qui les mettent directement sur la pile (genre Twincast, Fork,...), ne vont pas déclencher la capacité du notre nouveau seigneur des poissons, parce-que dans ce cas là, le copie n'est jamais lancé par quelqu'un.

C'est un peu pareille comme si tu met un créature de ton main directement en jeu avec Elvish Piper (ou Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling,...), tu ne pourra pas piocher une carte pour ton Glimpse of Nature parce que la créature n'était pas joué.

Bàv,

Tom

NiRVeS

Nombre de messages : 687
Date d'inscription : 04/05/2011
Localisation : Gent

http://belgianlegacycup.wordpress.com

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Message  ArchAlex le Lun 6 Aoû - 17:09

pour le coup, j'aime bien Isochron Scepter

merci :-)

ArchAlex

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Date d'inscription : 07/03/2012

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